Shannon: Monetizing a channel was much simpler, much more lucrative. The algorithm, whatever, was just more YouTuber friendly. 

Spencer: It’s always changing. You have to constantly be watching out for that. 

Shannon: You’re going to make a million dollars. That’s that myth. Yeah. 

Spencer: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Creators Uncut. I am Spencer, your host. And this is the show about the behind the scenes and business side of YouTube and social media. So super excited for another episode. Today, I’m here with Shannon from the YouTube channel, Therapist Talks. Shannon, thanks for being on the show. 

Shannon: Thanks so much for having me, Spencer. 

Spencer: So like we always do, we like to get to know our guests a little bit. So if you don’t mind telling us a little bit about yourself, like maybe what you like to do, and then more importantly, what your channel is and what it’s about. 

Shannon: I’ve been a therapist for about 37 years now. And about six years ago, there were a lot of mental health struggles kind of in the media a lot. And I didn’t really want to write a book, but I wanted to share a lot of the information and strategies I’d learned over the years with a wider audience. 

And I felt like everybody was watching YouTube. So I thought, well, I wonder if this is something I can do. And I could really share a little tidbits about this and that, just as sort of a gift back. And so I had a friend who was into YouTube and she really helped me kind of get started and understand how to get going. And she told me to post three videos a week for a while. And then I also connected into Quora, which is sort of like Reddit a little more. 

It’s very, it’s different than. And so I think Quora really fed a lot into my channel in the beginning. And that really helped me get within 10 months up to 1,000 subscribers, which then clicked me into being able to monetize. 

So that was cool. And in that year, six years ago, monetizing a channel was much simpler, much more lucrative. And the algorithm, whatever, was just more YouTuber friendly, I would say. So I was thinking, oh, cool, I can actually make some money at this, too. Which wasn’t my original intention, but it was nice. 

So that was really neat. And then a few years in, or actually within that year, I had recognized that the biggest need was for relationship struggles that people were having all around the world. And they were reaching out to me, making comments on the channel and on Quora. 

And really hungry for information about toxic relationships and particular narcissistic relationships and abuse and trauma. And so I started to kind of focus on that. I actually rebranded a little bit a year ago. Now I call it therapist talks thrive beyond narcissism. And that’s really become my focus. Then a few years in, I decided I did have to write that book. I didn’t want to write. 

Oh, yeah. Because these 10 minute snippets, you really can’t impart all the information that you want to share with somebody about how to heal from toxic relationships. And I had gathered a lot over the years in sharing that information. 

I thought I can put this into a book. It’s not that momentous as a thing. You know, I mean, it’s a mountain you have to climb. But so I did that and I wrote a book called Out of the Fog Into the Clear, Journaling to Help You Heal from Toxic Relationships. So I posted that. And then I found out from people that people don’t really do book tours anymore. For the most part, they do podcast tours. And I thought, well, that’s cool. 

I don’t have to go anywhere. So I started to learn about podcasting. So that was a really neat shift. And I’ve been doing a lot of podcasts over the last few years. Gotcha. 

Spencer: Cool. That’s that’s a great story and kind of how you got started. And I know on a comment you made a little bit earlier about how a few years ago, you felt like the YouTube algorithm was more YouTuber friendly. I think, you know, the YouTube algorithm always is evolving. 

It seems like it’s always changing and you have to constantly be watching out for that. So but also, Cora, that website is like a question and answer site, right? I feel like I’ve had some questions about some things and sometimes Cora pops up. Is that kind of how it works? Like you write a question. 

Shannon: It is. And it’s different from, yeah. And it’s different from Reddit and the other ones where in Reddit and the other ones, you’re asked to use your real name and it’s sort of like just opinionates opinionated thing. 

Whereas on Cora, you have to use your real name. Most of the people on there that you’re seeking answers from are licensed clinicians of whatever sort. You know, if you’re asking a question that’s an orthopedic question, you’re going to get answers from an orthopedic surgeon. So it’s kind of neat. It’s really much more solid information than you get on other sites. So it’s a neat site and it definitely was part of my journey. 

Spencer: Yeah, I’m curious. Did you ever, did someone ever have a question on Cora and you’re like, hey, I made a video about that and you sent them your video. Did you ever do that? 

Shannon: Constantly. So that algorithm changed too. Like initially they were all about everything I was posting and everything was cool. And then a couple of years in, they said, oh, you’re spamming us or something because I was posting videos that were taking them to YouTube. And all of a sudden that became spam. 

And so I kind of put in Cora Dale. And I kept posting with just leaving my videos aside and, you know, they could still look me up and figure out where I was. But in my profile, I still had where I was and what I was doing. So it was still feeding my channel, but it was not as much fun or as easy because I had to write out the answers and like, yeah, I’m done with this. So I haven’t really been on it much. Yeah. 

Spencer: No, that totally makes sense. And is unfortunate that Cora kind of put a stop to that. But I think sharing your videos on other platforms is a great way to grow your channel. So that’s cool. So I guess tell us a little bit about your process and how you make videos. You know, you mentioned how there was kind of a need in the mental health space for these videos, but was there more to it to coming up with ideas for videos? Like, did you have people commenting and you did not have a video on that subject? And so you’re like, oh, I should probably make a video on that. Or how did you come up with ideas for videos? Yeah. 

Shannon: And the initial stages, I just had so much I wanted to share. And there really were a lot of different topics that I went through on anxiety, depression, strategies, trauma, post-traumatic stress, all these different things that I wanted to share about. So my first year of videos was very broad. But then I did one on domestic violence. 

The it was called domestic violence, narcissistic rage in action. And that was the one that kind of popped and made me realize that this was the the focus that people really wanted to hear about. And there were tons of comments and questions. And and that started to give me ideas for new videos. And yes, very much the comments section is is where I started to grow community. And that was really wonderful. Gotcha. 

Spencer: Cool. And when you started your YouTube channel, did you have any experience with like filming or editing videos when you got started? Zero. Oh, yeah. So did your friend, did your friend kind of help you with that? The one that said you should start a YouTube channel? 

Shannon: Yeah, a little bit, a little bit, but I didn’t want to bug her. And so I really kind of flew blind and I wanted it to be organic. You know, I saw a lot of YouTube videos and honestly, the ones that are like super overproduced or just annoying, I just wanted to hear somebody talk about stuff. And so that was how I did it. I but I would prepare ahead of time because I wanted to impart some knowledge. And usually it was like 10 strategies for this or that or five indications that you have a narcissistic person on your hands or what have you. 

So I prepared and I had a not a script, but you know, some some pointers. And then everything else, as you can see, if your viewers click over to my channel, it’s very organic and I’m being kind to myself because it’s, you know, the sound isn’t good in the early years, especially I didn’t even have a professional microphone and I was just winging it on a laptop with what the laptop had in those days and not so great. So very organic and, you know, I just decided it isn’t about the show. 

It’s really about imparting the knowledge and creating community and being genuine and authentic. So that’s what I tried to create. I didn’t really want to spend money on it. I was willing to, you know, spend time, but I didn’t want to sink a lot of money into it because it was, you know, obviously a labor of love and not going to yield anything back to my knowledge at that point. So I never had a video produced or edited and, you know, what you see is what you get kind of thing. 

Spencer: Yeah, no, I’m glad that you brought up that you wanted to be genuine. I think that’s one of the great things about YouTube and what sets it apart from like traditional, you know, like television is all the all the creators, like they can just be themselves and it doesn’t have to be overproduced in order to to grow. And I think your channel is a great example of that. 

You know, people needed certain topics discussed and you saw that need and you’re able to be yourself and share that, but it doesn’t have to be overproduced. And I’m sure it was it was a steep learning curve, you know, learning the right way to film and to edit. I’m curious just because I’m biased because I’m a video editor, but what did you use to edit your videos when you first started? 

Shannon: When I first started, it was a one and done kind of a thing. And if it didn’t go well, I had to start over. Oh, yeah. Because I didn’t know how to edit. 

Oh, gotcha. And even six years ago, the editing options were really tough. If you’re editing yourself. So I didn’t do that. 

And, you know, the friends I had that did do YouTube, they sent away and had their stuff edited. And I again, I didn’t want to spend that money. So I didn’t edit. I edited by going back and doing it over again, which was awful. 

Spencer: Wow. That’s impressive. That was not very fun. And that, you know, kind of led to a little bit of burnout 

Shannon: after a few years and feeling like, I don’t know if I can do this a lot. And so, you know, I had to still work a real job. So I think that that was tough. But if I could do it again, I would probably spend more time at least figuring out how to be an editor. 

If not sending it to be edited. But now it’s easier. And now I do edit in terms of farming shorts out of longer videos. I’m capable of that now. I do that on Canva. Oh, on Canva. Yeah. I have played with a QuickTime player over the years, but the editing on there is awkward. 

I don’t get that. But Canva is actually a pretty user-friendly site that I’ve used over the years for my thumbnails and some other things. And then I realized that they actually do video editing too. And it’s very sort of user-friendly. So I’ve been using that lately just to grab shorts out of longer videos. 

Spencer: That’s cool. Yeah, I’ve used Canva before for photo stuff, but I didn’t know that it had the capability to do video. So that’s really cool. 

Shannon: It’s limited. Like you can’t upload a massive video. So you have to break it down. But yeah, it’s actually pretty straightforward. And that’s what I need. Yeah. 

Spencer: So you kind of mentioned this briefly. But do you have any advice now that you’ve started a YouTube channel from the beginning with little to zero knowledge? What advice do you have for someone who may want to start a channel this year? 

Shannon: I think one of the most important things is if it’s a labor of love, go for it. If you’re thinking that you’re going to be the next hot thing, take a step back and live your life. It’s sort of like like, you know, a good basketball player in high school thinking he’s going to make it to the NBA. 

Maybe, but you probably ought to have a backup plan. And a lot of people hit YouTube thinking they’re going to make millions. And a few people do, but most people, most people don’t. 

The algorithm is very weird. The effort they have to put into it to make that many videos and to pop that big is a lot. And I think people have unrealistic expectations of it. And like I said, even six years ago, the algorithm was different. 

And if it had stayed that way, I may have been able to quit my job, but it doesn’t work that way. You have to really grow to millions. And those are just few and far between compared to the, I can’t even remember what the ridiculous numbers are of how many, a billion videos are uploaded every day. 

It’s like absolutely insane. Or how many creators there are. I don’t know. Be realistic. And if it’s a labor of love, go for it. If you think you’re going to make a million dollars and don’t put your life on hold, have at least a plan B that you’re working on. 

Spencer: Yeah, no, I definitely agree. One thing I will say though is I think you can be successful without having a super massive YouTube channel. You may not be able to make a living just off of YouTube if you have a smaller channel, but you can utilize it in a way that maybe could help you in other ways. And I feel like this is a good transition. So you’re a therapist and you also do coaching. Is that right? 

Shannon: Yeah. So that was a funny transition too, because I was doing all these podcasts because of my book. And that was great. And that was fun. And pretty much every single podcaster said, so what’s your coaching routine or what’s your coaching business? And I’m like, man, I’m not a coach. 

I’m a therapist. Thinking that those two were, you couldn’t be both because a number of years ago, you couldn’t. But things have changed. 

And now you can, as long as you keep things clear and delineated and solid, you can be a therapist with the people that you are providing therapy for and you can coach separately and as a different thing. And so that was like, what I realized that. And so the way that you can create income is by feeding, by monetizing in other ways. And so for me, the YouTube channel has become the feeder for my coaching. And so coaching, I am a coach for healing from toxic relationships. 

And I can see anybody in the world. I can do individual or group coaching and I do. And I have just a wonderful experience doing that personally. It’s very fulfilling. I just love it. I really do. And that also is something that has actually been helping support me back instead of just being that labor of love to begin with. So it feels like a really, really good fit. And that just came about because all these podcasts hosts were like, why aren’t you doing this? 

That’s dumb. So I looked into it and figured it out. And also had a trainer who trains people how to go from being a therapist to a coach and helps you set that up and all that. So that was super helpful. So that’s been really, really neat. 

A really wonderful part of my journey. And I know for other YouTubers, typically they create merchandise or they monetize some other way. And that’s absolutely, again, if you have those aspirations, that’s realistic. I have 27,000 subscribers on my channel, nothing or shattering, but it’s big enough. And it’s big enough for the algorithm to feed my videos to people. And I find that it’s actually really neat because I get as many as the clients as I want and can handle and no more and no less. 

So it’s sort of like the universe God is providing for me exactly what I need. And I don’t stress about it and I don’t advertise or anything like that. I just let it be. 

Spencer: That’s awesome. Yeah, there’s a lot of different ways that YouTubers can use their channel as like a funnel to their business. And that’s awesome. So I actually want to take a step back. So for our listeners who may not know, what’s the difference between being a therapist and coaching? 

Shannon: So yeah, the people who are sort of struggling with it have sought out attorneys and people who know and licensing and all this to really make it clear. So when you are acting as a therapist, you do an assessment, a diagnosis, and you do treatment. When you’re acting as a coach, you are providing information, encouragement, support, more information, encouragement and support. So, you know, I don’t lose my information that I know, my strategies that I know. All of my expertise doesn’t fall out of my head or anything. I’m providing that encouragement, support, strategies and information, but I’m just not diagnosing, assessing or treating. Gotcha. And if somebody were to sort of say that they needed this or that that I couldn’t provide as a coach, I would refer them elsewhere. So it’s really clear and it’s really delineated, which may be super comfortable doing it. 

Because back even a few years ago, it was so fuzzy, I thought, no, I’m not going to risk my license, but now it’s very clear and delineated and I’m perfectly comfortable with it. And you can’t shift people back and forth. Like, once a therapist, always a therapist, you can’t then put that person in your coaching program or put your coaching client into your counseling program. So you have to keep those things clear and delineated. 

Spencer: Gotcha. So in your videos, did you ever like put a plug or shout out your coaching or a therapist stuff or did you just make the video about the topic and people just organically reached out to you? 

Shannon: I didn’t. I did that for my book. I did a couple of shorts for my book. But, you know, primarily if somebody resonates with you in a topical video, they look in the description, they find the site, they jump into the site. I don’t plug. It feels polluted to me. 

I know that’s silly because, you know, that’s what that’s what people do. But just for me, I’m giving the content. If you seek me out, that’s great. Like I said, it’s very just enough for me and not too much. So if I was out there like blasting, plugging, I may be overwhelmed and I don’t want that. 

So I just let it be organic. And what’s cool is that, you know, a person kind of comes to the initial call because I do a free call for anybody who is interested in the coaching 30 minute, you know, get to know you, see if we can help each other kind of a thing. Most people come sort of already knowing who you are, which is really cool because they’ve already seen some videos. 

They’ve already kind of listened to some podcasts and they’ve already decided that they resonate with you. So it’s kind of a neat process. And I, yeah, I’m a big fan. It’s turned out really, really well. 

Spencer: Yeah, that’s awesome. So I’m curious, was there a point in time where, like you realized like a light bulb moment where you realized like, Hey, this YouTube channel could really, you know, have a positive impact on my business? Like was it a light bulb moment or was it kind of like gradually over time? Like you realized, oh, this could be beneficial. Yeah. In the early years now, 

Shannon: it was like I said, a labor of love and I didn’t expect anything in return. But then, and the book was also labor of love. I don’t make a lot of money off of it. And then the coaching was so hard to get started because I had to engage in all this computer-y stuff that was really a struggle. But once that, once that was launched and I got my first clients, I was like, Wow, I really love this. I’m providing a service for people who really need and want it. 

And I can, you know, eventually make this my business if I want to. That was the light bulb for sure. But it was a gradually growing light bulb. It wasn’t up there. 

Spencer: Yeah. No, that totally makes sense. Cool. Yeah. I think a lot of YouTubers, whether they use their channel as a funnel or whether they just do YouTube full time. I think most people, it’s gradually over time where they realize YouTube could be a big key for their success. You know, I do think there are some YouTubers out there that, you know, they have a bunch of videos that just pop off and go super viral. And that could be like a light bulb moment. But I think most people, it’s like gradually over time. 

So totally makes sense. So I guess moving on a little bit. Since you’ve been doing this for about six years, is that what you said? Has there been any, I guess, mistakes that you feel like you’ve made that you wish you would have done something differently or you regretted doing that you wish you could have taken back with your YouTube videos? 

Shannon: For sure, I wish I would have learned more earlier, you know, just the simple things like a microphone, just the really simple basic things like learning to edit. So I didn’t have to redo an entire 20 minute video. I didn’t like that I’ve bumbled or babbled or whatever. So that was, I definitely would have done that, you know, just spent some time on YouTube figuring out videos. 

That’s a very good source. Also, that one of the things that I started to get burned out and I started to get, you know, bored of making videos just out of my head and out of comments. And then this friend again said, well, you know, live streaming is really a good thing. It feeds more to your channel and it gives you more content. 

So that was not a mistake. That was like, oh, this is the solution to my current feelings like I don’t want to do this anymore, but I don’t want my channel to die. I started doing an hour long live stream Q &A every other Sunday afternoon. And, you know, it wasn’t massively watched, but it was watched enough. And then those were, you know, an hour of content every week that, you know, for me to make an hour of content, the way I was doing it, would have been a lot of work. So it was an hour of content. It was much easier for me and much more organic than sitting in front of a camera. 

Ba ba ba ba. It was much easier like I’m talking with you. This feels much more fun and organic than if I were to sit there and read your questions and answer them. So it was easier for me to sort of feel like I was talking to my viewers and talking to my people, my community, and feeling that sense of community as people would pipe in and say, oh, yeah, thank you so much. Oh, that meant a lot to me. You know, so that was that live stream thing that really helped me reinvigorate when I was getting burned out. That would be a suggestion for anybody who starts to kind of run out of steam. If your channel is something that you can do that with live streaming, it’s really good. 

Spencer: Yeah, that is great advice. I think everyone goes through a point in their YouTube where they do get a little bit of burnout, whether they’re tired of, you know, making the same type of content or, you know, maybe it’s just a lot of work to make their videos. But that’s a good idea. You know, try live streaming. I feel like it’s similar, but different enough that it can make a big difference. So that’s a good point. 

Shannon: It was terrifying at first, but. 

Spencer: Yeah. Yeah, I think during live stream would be it’s like it’s hard in its own other way. Like you don’t have to like do a ton of behind the scenes stuff because it’s live, but it’s live. And so people could see, see all the mistakes and stuff like that. So. Yeah. 

Shannon: The live stream was fun and interesting. And it did help me kind of build that community a little bit deeper and stronger. So that was good. It was a commitment though. And doing it every other Sunday was like, oh gosh, I have to do this again. But it got a lot of comments and questions coming in and that was really good for building community. 

Spencer: Yeah. So did you take those live streams and chop them up into smaller videos? I should have. 

Shannon: I just posted the whole thing to my channel. So, you know, the whole hour, but I should have. Again, if I had known at that point better how to chop things up. And you know, if I started to live stream again, I would definitely do that because they’re always, you know, a lot of it was about dealing with a narcissistic son or daughter, adult child, you know, or if shifted into dealing with a spouse or shifted into, so they were very much all over the map. And it would have been really productive or still might be someday that, you know, to sparse those out and put them in different videos. There’s a lot of content that you create when you do something like that. Yeah. 

Spencer: Definitely. I think it could be beneficial to, you know, even though those live streams you had, maybe were a bit ago, you know, it could be beneficial to repost them in shorter clips today, even though it’s a while ago, because, you know, YouTube or like people viewing YouTube, YouTube consumers, some people may have seen that live stream, but maybe some people didn’t. And so, you know, if you repost those shorter clips, it could reach a new person. So totally true. That’s just an idea. 

Shannon: So that’s totally true. Yeah. I mean, if I had more time to spend on it, because like I said, I still have a real job, not that this isn’t real, but if I have more time, that would be one thing I would do for sure. I would farm out more from the podcasts I’ve done that I posted the whole thing. 

I’d farm out more from my old, they’re not very old. That’s just a few years ago, but from those live streams that I did, because there was a lot of more in-depth answering of the questions that people have about dealing with toxic relationships. And I think it would be helpful for people and nobody, you know, not many people after the fact sit down and watch the whole live stream. 

Spencer: Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, I’ve got one more question for you, Shannon, to kind of wrap things up. And this is one, if you’ve seen our previous episodes, we asked this to all of our guests and it is the myth-busting question. 

So from your experience doing YouTube, is there anything that you feel like is a common myth that is maybe a misconception that you think needs to be busted? Yeah. Anything like that from your experience? 

Shannon: Well, I think that would be too prompt. One is I have to do it everybody else’s way. That’s a myth. You can do it your way. You can be authentically you. You can do it very organically. It doesn’t have to be super produced. So yeah, that would be one myth I would want to bust. The other one is you’re going to make a million dollars. 

Bust that myth. But yeah, if it’s a labor of love, go for it. Don’t hold back because you don’t have the technical skills or you think that you don’t look good enough on a camera and you have to be perfect Barbie or whatever. It’s YouTube is really people seeking out other people to learn something from. And if you have something to share, share it. Yeah, definitely. 

Spencer: Perfectly well said. Couldn’t have said it better myself. And Shannon, thanks for being on the show. Really appreciate it. 

Shannon: Thank you so much, Spencer. It’s been a blast. 

Spencer: So you have your YouTube channel. Are there any other platforms that if our viewers wanted to follow you that they should go to? 

Shannon: Primarily YouTube and I have a site, healfromtoxicrelationships.com slash info. If anybody wants to learn more. And yeah, I have a spattering on other things, but mostly YouTube. Gotcha. 

Spencer: Cool. Well, thanks again, Shannon, and thanks to our listeners for checking out and watching this episode. Make sure to follow Shannon on her YouTube channel and check out her website. And if you need help with content creation, make sure to reach out to us at creatorluxe.com. And we’ll see you in the next episode.